Transcript: "What Counsel are America's Places of Faith Offering During the Pandemic?"
Chris: Welcome to Religion in the American Experience, a podcast series of the National Museum of American Religion. Our history is clear. Religions and their leaders have always inspired Americans during times of national tragedy and crisis with their inspiring words, their sermons that give their people hope. Today, the country faces a raging global pandemic now going on twelve months and its staggering effects, death without loved ones near, unemployment, hunger, shuttered public schools, uncertainty, isolation, fear, and closed temples, mosques, synagogues, and churches. What counsel have religious leaders been offering to their people in the face of such a pandemic? We thought that Religion in the American Experience could both capture history in real time and be of service to the country by convening a panel of American religious leaders to share what they have told their congregations and believers with a broader national audience. Today's panel consists of ten religious leaders, some with national scope and others with regional or local scope. And we thank them for their willingness to be with us. I will introduce each as we move through the hour-long discussion.
Chris: The startup National Museum of American Religion will be both the place of convening in Washington DC for discussions about current national issues where religion or the idea of religious freedom is in play, as we are doing today, and the nationally recognized center for presenting, interpreting, and educating the public about what religion has done to America and what America has done to religion including the history of the revolutionary and indispensable idea of religious freedom as a governing principle in the United States. Join us in building the National Museum of American Religion in the nation's capital to open in 2026 on the two hundred and fortieth anniversary of Thomas Jefferson's immortal words: "Almighty God hath created the mind free.", capturing the American essence of religious freedom by donating at storyofamericanreligion.org/contribute.
Chris: For a contribution of two hundred dollars or more, you will receive a free signed copy of the book, "When Sorrow Comes: The Power of Sermons from Pearl Harbor to Black Lives Matter" by Melissa Matthes, Professor of Government at the United States Coast Guard Academy. Her forthcoming book reminds us or will remind us that, in the face of national crisis, faith leaders have incredible power to help Americans endure, even flourish, and further the work of improving the imperfect yet noble American experiment in self-government.
Chris: Panelists, thank you so very much for being with us. We are going to start with Rev. Margaret Rose, who is the Ecumenical and Inter-Religious Deputy to the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church in New York City, and she is also a Priest Associate at the Church of the Heavenly Rest in New York City. Rev. Rose, thank you for being with us. Uh tell us briefly about your congregation that you serve, and then what you have been saying to your people about how to endure this pandemic crisis.
Rev. Rose: Thank you so much, and thank you to all ten of us being here because I think the kind of learning that we will have together will be something that we can offer to congregations and the faithful around the country. As Chris said, I serve at the national level as well as a Priest Associate at the Church of the Heavenly Rest in New York City. Heavenly Rest was formed just after the Civil War to give rest to returning soldiers and to a wounded country, for their families to people who were looking for a kind of reconciliation. And it has carried that emphasis throughout its life. It is a large episcopal church now on Fifth Avenue and 90th street in Manhattan, New York City. And its close neighbors are Harlem, Central Park and what is locally called the Museum Mile. Not exactly inner city, but there is a lot of traffic there.
Rev. Rose: From the beginning of the pandemic like all churches, 2020 was a moment of pivot. First and foremost, how to figure out what to do when ninety-nine percent of programming with the exception of email is in person and then how to do ninety-nine point nine percent of programming and engagement online and virtual. From the beginning of that pandemic at Heavenly Rest, the question has not been so much what we might say that will help people endure, but how we can strengthen the community around us so that together we can endure and even flourish amid the grief and loss, especially amid the knowledge of so much that is being exposed in our country where we once thought we might be immune, strengthening that community meant for us listening to science, telling the truth and acting in solidarity with those most at risk, and most of all, that commitment and effort meant staying connected to use every resource possible to do that.
Rev. Rose: Old-fashioned ones, like old lists and phone calls and phone trees as well as email and walking door-to-door, care for those who might be alone, communications via email were ra- ramped up every day offering prayers and programs and resources. And so, first of all, it was connect and engage with each other, and then, connect and engage with the neighborhood and the city. We created the fund for the not-forgotten, sharing resources with schools, assisting neighbor parishes with technology names, joining with other faith groups to work together to care for children who needed laptops, for example, or school lunches. Connect and engage with the world beyond ourselves, noting that this is not just a community pandemic but a global one and is exposing the many pandemics around the world, but mostly within our own country of healthcare disparities, racial injustice, to name just a few. As we traveled this road together as a parish, our community was and is being transformed. In those traditional ways, of course, by prayer and those ways that you might expect but also the fact that technology somehow allowed the quiet voices. Those who often said not so much in a pew, now offering webinars and forums, the stories of their lives which helped they themselves to endure and offering those possibilities to others.
Rev. Rose: What had been a rector-clergy-focused parish albeit with extraordinary late leadership is becoming one digging deep and discover how that label leadership works even more in partnership with clergy extending beyond the walls where we gather and, indeed, into the city and the country and beyond where we are located. This crisis has meant that we must look both deeply inward as well as beyond ourselves. We see that in a way as a sign of hope. The church-wide denominational level as well has met that unlikely partners have been able to gather together. In the parish, we have had connections with the synagogue that we had begun, but now are even deeper than ever. But the church-wide level virtual iftars and satyrs, for example, have helped us get to know each other.
Rev. Rose: Inter-religious engagement has made it possible even now for us to partner with one another to offer our spaces for vaccines or also for COVID tests. All of these, I think, are signs of hope and remain even and, in times that we are remaining polarized as a country, we are moving forward together. So that, if we have the courage to connect, we will create not so much a new normal but a new way of being. As Arundhati Roy said to us, "This time is a portal, a gateway between one world and the next. We can choose to walk through it, dragging the carcasses of our prejudice and hatred, our data banks and rivers and dead ideas. We can choose to walk through it, dragging our old carcasses of prejudice and hatred are dead Banks and rivers and we can walk through lightly with little luggage ready to imagine another world. And ready to fight for it." With our congregation together, we are imagining together another world with our neighbors and with those global partners that we were beginning to know in new ways. Thank you.
Chris: Thank you, Rev. Rose. Rabbi Jacobs.
Rabbi Jacobs: Thank you. It is an honor to be with all of you, my faith colleagues and those who are with us, wherever you might be. I am Rabbi Rick Jacobs. I serve as the leader of the Union for Reform Judaism, which is the largest and most diverse community of uh Jews in here in North America. We were founded in 1873 right after the Civil War, so a nice connection to Heavenly rest, and in our name is Union. And there was anything but unity at that moment in American history. So our founder, Rabbi Isaac Mayer Wise wanted to put it in our name to be an aspiration that we could in fact create more connection and more sense of common purpose. Uh we in the Jewish tradition, we look around and we see the brokenness everywhere we look and we also see the very same moment more acts of love and healing and kindness than we are trained to look at coz we tend to see the brokenness more.
Rabbi Jacobs: Our Jewish tradition teaches us that we are to do repairs of that which is broken, healers of all that ails not just ourselves but our community and our world. In the Hebrew Bible in Second Kings, there is a word for crisis. The word in Hebrew is 'mashber', but it literally means a birth stool, that little modest stool upon which for millennia babies were born. Now my wife tells me I am not allowed to comment about the pain of childbirth. I was just in the birthing room as a coach, but I can testify that the pain of childbirth throughout history has been not only overwhelming but deadly but what we know about that moment is also a moment of enormous possibility and hope. So at this very same moment that we are morning so much death and experiencing so much fear and loss, we are at the very same moment experiencing perhaps a rebirth of what it might mean to be a person of faith in this twenty-first century. And I would just state the obvious that we have so many people here in America who are not at home yet in a faith community and maybe feel even a touch alienated. So this is a moment where we have experienced people who have not had faith commitments but have longed for a anchor in this turbulent time.
Rabbi Jacobs: They have longed for a spiritual practice to ground everyday with concrete ways to not just cope but to find a way to thrive amidst it all. We know that this is a time when, frankly, some of the people who we longed to reach as religious leaders have maybe been more open than ever before. This
is a moment to extend the tent of our faith communities and maybe a moment to grow what it might mean to work together as this beautiful collection of religious leaders uh testifies to. I also wanna say that it is very possible in a moment like this just to focus in on ourselves or maybe our families or our most intimate circle of community, but I know in the Jewish tradition, we worship a God who is impatient with injustice. And so, in the midst of having to very often educate our children in the very same rooms where we are trying to earn a living, that we not pause our justice work. That is critical to what it means to be a person of faith. And given all of the uncertainty, we know that we have to actually stand up and be counted as people who can focus not just on ourselves and our needs but the needs of those around us, maybe some who we do not know.
Rabbi Jacobs: What we are certain of is that the death toll continues to grow and that it does not discriminate and yet it does. The plague of racial Injustice has been so deadly and we know that those dying of COVID-19 are disproportionately black and brown and native people. We know that essential workers on the front lines of the pandemic are often without adequate access to healthcare. No, we know this is a moment of racial Justice uh and a call to conscience. We know that our faith uh has to say something about the critical issues facing our world and, if our faith, our collective faiths do not have something to say about the the killing of all Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, then frankly, I would have to say that our faith does not have anything to say, and I know our faith has so much to say.
Rabbi Jacobs: We also know in this moment where our neighbor could be the one in need or the one to help us that diversity is divine. It is not a problem. It is a gift that God has created all of us in God's image without distinction, without exception. There is a beautiful passage in the Book of Zechariah, the prophet, that to me has three words that I would build not just a homily but a daily and weekly and monthly practice for our community. It says, "Love, truth and peace." Uh you could leave out one of those words and a lot of us maybe spend our time loving truth, which means that we could sometimes overwhelm those around us with the clarity and the certainty. Some people only wanna love peace. They just want everybody to feel good but do not wanna stand for something, do not wanna be accountable for the truth of what we do. But Zechariah says, "Love them both." Bring them together and that is the work. I know of being a faith community.
Rabbi Jacobs: There is a psychologist, Richard Tedeschi, who has a theory called Posttraumatic Growth. We know about posttraumatic stress. We are all experiencing it and our communities are experiencing it. Posttraumatic growth means that in traumatic experiences, like a global pandemic like a moment of racial injustice. We actually can have moments that our growth is is catalyzed and we are able to explore new ways of thinking, new ways of being. So I think this is a moment to reimagine what it means to be a faith community. What does it mean to know the borders of our faith and our community or not the walls of our sanctuaries, but the breadth of the earth that God calls us into leadership. We are- we are called to be not caretakers of institutions, but people who live our faith in caring lovingly for those around us, loving not just the ones who are like us but the once who are not like us at all. That that is part of what it means and so I would conclude with the Judaic notion that our world is um always in need of repair and what we do in our daily prayer and our faith, in our reflection, in our study, in our works of kindness to those around us, in our acts of social justice, we become partners with the Holy One to repair the world and to create a world from end to end that is filled with wholeness, compassion, joy, justice and peace. Thank you.
Chris: Thank you, Rabbi Jacobs. Pastor Davis.
Pastor Davis: Awesome, so glad to be here. So, my name is Pastor Demetrius Davis. I am Lead Pastor of CityPoint Community Church in Chicago's South Loop neighborhood. Uh I am a Christian pastor. Our congregation is uh mostly made up of uh black millennial professionals uh from uh around the country and uh the pandemic has evolved us into what we are calling a digital-first church. So rather than uh whe- rather than see it as problematic, the challenges that we are facing, we have decided to double down and lean into the the opportunity that being digital has has offered to us. Um theologically, we tend to lean toward a social gospel and, that is, this belief within Christianity that um one must examine what one has to do as a result of one's faith. How do- how does one impact uh the way one's neighbor lives? How does one impact the children in one's community um the schooling opportunities, the equality opportunities that are available to everybody as a result of our beliefs. Uh and so- um and so, that is a bit about my tradition.
Pastor Davis: One of the things that I have encouraged our congregation in- from the start of the pandemic, um there is uh uh an Old Testament scripture from my tradition that comes from Jeremiah twenty-nine where the people are effectively facing uh facing exile and their prophets that are telling people, the people that this will be over shortly. Everything will be back to normal. But then they receive this prophetic word that, in actuality, you are gonna be in this for a while, but the way that you should deal with it should not be to deal with it in despair. But that you should um you should effectively deal with it understanding that um that God still has a plan for your life. And so, that is a lot of what I have been encouraging our congregation around is that, although we are uncertain about how all this turns out, that based on our faith, we do believe that God is certain uh about the future and he is certain that there will be a future. Um and so- and so, I have talked to them about I- I would say just several points when I think about how I frame these things for them.
Pastor Davis: One is for them to consider that, according to our belief, that God was using disaster for development and we have absolutely been uh seeing this in some ways that we have been I I think given an opportunity to reimagine the world that we have created the society that we created. I think that the pandemic gave us all the chance to be forced to slow down and to settle down into to rethink how we are relating to one another uh and rethink what our priorities were as as a nation uh and as a world. Um also caused us to take a- have to take a step back and consider that, as Dr. King said, "What affects- affects any of us directly, affects all of us indirectly." And so, we recognize that the world is a neighborhood and an outbreak in one part of the world can impact us in a different part of the world.
Pastor Davis: And so, the idea of isolationism, the idea of- of only thinking about what is good for us as a society uh is not good enough. And so, I have been pressing uh pressing that up on our congregation uh to begin to just reimagine this world that we have created and ask ourselves the question, is the will of the Lord being done on Earth as it is in heaven? And if not, what is the role that we need to play in shaping that um as uh people of faith who get a chance and get the privilege to participate in a democracy? What is the society that we are creating and is it really being informed by our beliefs? Is it coming out in our vote? Is it coming out in our political participation? Is it coming out in in the policies that we support uh or are the policies that we support um running counter to our faith? And so, I have been pushing them in- in those ways.
Pastor Davis: One of the second points that I have made to them was to consider that God um may have been, as we thought about that that story in Jeremiah- look, I may have been effectively inviting them to settle into their circumstances um and for us, similarly, while we have wanted the pandemic to be over quickly, we do recognize that it is not as quickly, it is has not ended quickly and there is a settling into a new normal and deciding that we are going to live in the midst of this rather um than rather than just pack up and sit on the sidelines until things are over but that we must continue with life that we must uh continue to, you know, we have had congregants who have been engaged and they have, you know, realized that they could not have their dream wedding, but that life goes on. And so, they have had their private ceremonies with three people, but that I have been just pressing up on them to continue to live uh in the midst of this.
Pastor Davis: Uh and then, finally, that delay is not denial that, although the situation has extended a long time and- and it seems like we have been God-forsaken or God-abandoned um to really realize that, just because we are experiencing delay, does not mean that God has forgotten about us uh in the midst of this. And so, I- I have used this illustration with them and I will- I will close my time uh by sharing it with you. Um the movie, "Back to the Future" uh predicted things and- and in some ways, it predicted some things that- that actually ended up- ended up happening, you know, some years later. But what is really interesting about that movie is that, in "Back to the Future" uh specifically "Back to the Future II", they are- Marty and Doc Brown are effectively like going uh going back into the past. Um um they are going back into the past with this understanding of the future and they are manipulating in some ways the past based on how they want the future to play out.
Pastor Davis: I talked to them about how that there are similarities with how we believe that God operates that, while we are in this present moment struggling with the pandemic, that in actuality, he has 2025 in mine. He has plans for 2030 and understands what life looks like there. And so, while we may feel hopeless at times based on our current and present experiences, realize that we do believe that we have a God that knows the future, has a plan for the future um and that um that we can be hopeful in that. So, thank you.
Chris: Thank you, Pastor Davis, very much. Imam Magid.
Imam Magid: Uh thanks so much for inviting me to be among this great leaders um religious leaders. Um I want to share with you that [throat clearing] my own transformation uh during this pandemic. I- I think I have become more- more mindful of the responsibility is given to religious leaders. I have been always mindful of it but become more mindful of the- how much uh do you know we are responsible of the well-being of people. Decided to close even the mosque for months and tell people that we will not be able to have congregation prayer because of the pandemic. That was very heavy decision but meant to save people life. The responsibility of telling people the right information about vaccine and not have them to listen to fiction and WhatsApp group information because have them to resist the vaccine can lead to many people losing their life.
Imam Magid: The responsibility is to serve people at the time where you cannot see your loved one because of COVID-19 and then you come as a religious leader to try to negotiate with hospitals uh you know, nursing home, how can they see or how they can connect with their loved one through internet, phone, other other means? Also responsibility of continue to teach the shared wisdoms of the scripture while people staying at home, learning how to use Zoom, learning how to use Virtual Space. It is not easy. And but also to counsel people, the criers people who were grieving the loved one by seeing them only in your computer where you cannot give them- able to give them a hug. This was not easy.
Imam Magid: Was not easy for us to make sure that we deliver food to those who are in need, those who lost their jobs and to knock on their doors, especially people have been uh impacted by COVID-19, and to bring the food to the- to their- to their door, volunteers from our community worried about their health, worried about their safety, but all of us who thought that it is very important for us to deliver those food and the need for those who are in need. Also, I came to know that uh you know, my colleague, the pastor, the rabbis, they are my safety social [laughter] support. I have been calling rabbis and pastor, you know, all the time. How are you doing? How are your community doing? And sometime, I text a rabbi and he said to me, "Your text brought tears to my eyes because I just came from the cemetery. We buried another loved one from our community of COVID-19."
Imam Magid: And they do the same thing for me. That is how we create a support system in this beautiful country of ours. The other things I want to say that, also it has been challenging to realize that how much we have neglected the people in need in our communities. This pandemic have expose us, expose the whole nation of this how many people have been ignored and that is why we need to have a vaccine against the- the- the- the COVID-19 but vaccine also against racism, discriminations, and we need to bring- heal the nation and that my hope, my prayer in this moment, in the history of our beloved country that we come together and says no more. For those who have been neglected, those who have been overlooked and we we want to call it together because the pandemic have showed us no one is immune and we, as a community, by providing vaccine in our community clinic, by providing Social Service for those who are in need, we create a healthy, compassionate, caring community.
Chris: Thank you, Imam Magid. Pastor Platero.
Pastor Platero: Thank you, everyone. And uh it is customary in our uh Navajo um way to introduce ourselves in our native language. So [foreign language]. So I have any relatives out there that are watching, hello. Yá'át'ééh! Um I wanna begin by saying that nobody warned us. Nobody said that the Navajo Nation would be hit um and one of the hardest um would be one of the hardest hit areas in America. Nobody warned us that we would lose people at a disproportionate rate um or above any other people group um in- in- in our nation. Nobody said that we would lose a- a good majority of our senior pastors and lead pastors all across the Navajo Nation. Nobody told us that we would have to uh shelter in place uh for days on end and uh almost uh get to a point where we were rationing our food. Nobody told us that um we would be losing um great elders, great leaders, great thinkers of our people group. Uh nobody warned us.
Pastor Platero: And when we were hit with the virus uh and when it hit- hit us, it hit us hard. Not only did we um begin to rethink who we were as a um as a people, we began to think about what our next steps were and what we were gonna do to uh mitigate the- the spread of the- the pandemic on our Navajo Nation. Imagine if you would living in a- in conditions akin to a third world country and uh knowing your neighbors um are miles and miles away, and then imagine uh having to check on those neighbors and finding them uh deceased in their households. These are some of the stories that we um had to deal with- with the uh uh pandemic here on Navajo. And as we began to see the uh tragedies unfold, we began to- we began to lose hope.
Pastor Platero: We began to be reminded that uh sometimes uh Navajo people and First Nations people, the host people of the land uh of America, are sometimes the forgotten people or sometimes people that are pushed aside and maybe not have thought of in- in- in- in- in the way that we would like to be. And then imagine if you would people turning their attention to us on national news and inviting us into panels like this and saying, "We want you to be a part of the discussion because you are not forgotten because we see and we understand you." Imagine people saying, "Thank you for being the host people of the land and for uh inviting us into the conversation." Uh as we begin to think about these things and- and see these things unfold all across Navajo, we began to get a sense of hope and a sense of longing for times that we are- we are better than uh what we were seeing in front of us.
Pastor Platero: One of the big things that I have encouraged my- my people to do my uh uh congregation is not as um diverse as some of yours. Uh my congregation is not that uh uh as big as- as some of you but um you know, my sphere of influence uh revolves around those that are young um and I struggled a lot with what to say to them. I struggled a lot with what uh to inspire with them than having seen all of the travesty around Navajo, but then having to be the one to inspire hope. And the one thing that came to mind was a verse from First Peter uh which reads [throat clearing] uh in uh First Peter 4:10, "As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God." Uh each one of us have had uh a tremendous amount of um uh ways that we have responded the pandemic and we have seen so many uh Navajo people step up uh and we were- for so many days- for so many years. we have been uh seen as a mission field and now we are being seen as a mission force.
Pastor Platero: And that was my encouragement to young people uh to people all across our land that um as hard as we have been hit, we have an obligation as the host people of the land uh to go out, to begin to uh help one another regardless of um faith, regardless of uh uh orientation. Uh one way or the other, we are called to help people, to serve people. Our faith demands that we made the physical needs and the spiritual needs of people. And so, uh it has been a tremendous- the- the one thing I can say to uh all of us here and those listening is that the Navajo Nation uh those First Nation uh people of the land that uh we are mobilizing, that we are caring for you, that we hold you in our prayers, that we uh we see you as- as you have seen us.
Pastor Platero: And as you have sent aid, we are sending aid, and what a tremendous hope to give to people that we can change the- the direction. We can turn the head of our nation if we come together, if we mobilize, if we begin to uh take up the great responsibility that we have been given. And uh I- I- I wanna say to you all on- on this panel how honored I am to be uh among you. I wanted them to have a voice in this because you are saying, by virtue of listening to me and by virtue of having this conversation that our- my people, the Navajo people, are not forgotten um and that you are inviting us into the conversation. I wanna thank you for that from the bottom of my heart. I want to say in our native language [foreign language] with great gratitude. I give this report to you. So thank you all and uh God bless you.
Chris: Thank you, Pastor Platero. And I failed to introduce our panelists. I am gonna take a minute and uh tell you who has spoken to us. That was Pastor Platero. He is the Chaplain at Broken Arrow Bible Ranch on the Navajo Nation. Before him was Imam Magid. He is the Executive Religious Director at the All Dulles Area Muslim Society or ADAMS Center in Sterling, Virginia. Before Imam Magid was Pastor Demetrius Davis, Lead Pastor at CityPoint Community Church in Chicago. And then, before that was Rabbi Jacobs, Reform Rabbi and the President of the Union for Reform Judaism. And before that was Rev. Rose and I believe I did introduce her. So we will go now to Rev. Chebon Kernell. He is Muscogee Ceremonial Leader and Executive Director of the Native American Comprehensive Plan of the United Methodist Church, and he is in Oklahoma City. Rev. Kernell.
Rev. Kernell: Thank you, Chris. Um as my relative uh Pastor Platero was saying, it is customary to do our- our introductions in our language so that all of our ancestors and those who may be watching will know who we represent and who we speak of. [foreign language] So I just shared with you a little bit of my responsibilities uh to my community of Muscogee people and Seminole people of Oklahoma, and also just letting you know who my clan relatives are uh in that little uh few lines that I shared with you. Um it is my pleasure. Once again, as everyone has said to- to be here with each of you relatives talking about the impact of this pandemic on our respective communities and I am uh particularly touched by our [?] relatives and our Navajo people in what they have gone through and I am thankful for the- the presence of Pastor Platero and others that have labored through what um much of the world is just now beginning to understand what we go through as Native American people day-to-day because, unfortunately, this is not the only trauma that we face day in and day out.
Rev. Kernell: And really, when we think about what have we been sharing in terms of our message to our people, um you know, as a community for- for myself and- and my role having served or- over the past twenty years and two capacities as uh a pastor of a church, but right now in more of an administrative role where I am responsible for training all of our communities within the United Methodist Church with that impact Native American and indigenous peoples um you know, it is very- we have to be very honest in what we try to say because before we can get into anything prescriptive of what we can be in ministry and in life, we have to be descriptive. We have to describe actually the trauma that we are going through day in and day out and that is really what we are facing today. When we think about- we are just now getting the statistics on how this pandemic is hitting people of color throughout the United States and it is heartbreaking.
Rev. Kernell: I think even one of our institute has just uh yesterday put out uh a statistic of how that thirty-five percent of COVID-related deaths are from young people, Native Americans under the age of sixty, which is quite opposite of what you see going on across the country, you know, we already know, you know, the six times, the seven times higher rates of infections in Native American communities and the reality is, much of our people uh much of the world I should say, had- does not quite realize what that means for communities that represent one percent of the population were making up an enormous percent of the people that are actually getting sick from the virus. And even as I have been on call after call, conference after conference, I have actually implored of people to realize that I am not so sure what our community will look like when we are past this, that we have to at least acknowledge at some level the trauma that we are going through.
Rev. Kernell: Even just uh a couple of weeks ago. I was called to do and I know this is how pastors and clergy all over uh the Native American communities are- are- are what they are going through. I was called to do four funerals in the amount of eight days and three of those, of course, were COVID-related. One was one of just our elders had passed away, but we are still called into situations where we might find ourselves um I am- I am not gonna say put in harm's way, but uh where we might be exposed to this virus. And for our world, you know, one of the things that it is very difficult for us to understand a cosmology that is different than looking at the intimate communication between human-to-human and human-to-creation is that our churches, our communities were kind of hybrid in our understanding of the world and our faith is that, number one, we do have for those that are finding a spiritual home and Christianity, they do have tenants and Christianity are very much the same as what we have heard on our call.
Rev. Kernell: But we also possess spiritualities that um you know, we have been performing and engaging in understandings of the world that have been in place for uh thousands of years and it is those things that are still tugging at as for when- when we look at a Zoom call or a meeting such as this, it seems somewhat artificial. So we tend to want to be in each other's presence, to be in each other's uh you know, to see each other, to talk to each other. And that is one of the things that we have continued to do, you know, throughout the country and, unfortunately, it has had a- an enormous impact on our um on our health and well-being as Pastor Platero had said, many of our ministers have have passed on and even in our- many of our communities here in Oklahoma um it has been the- the- the same thing.
Rev. Kernell: So we have been trying to- the message that we have been trying to share is that, because we might uh we are gonna believe in science and what is being said um from- from uh reputable sources, it does not take away from our faith to not go and meet in person in church settings. It is not gonna take away from our faith. And this has been a work in progress. It has been, you know, a little bit of- of a teaching that we have had to engage in to say it is gonna be okay if, you know, if we do not have uh a Sunday morning service that might expose us to the virus unnecessarily. Um but I must say, there is challenges, you know. Not all of us have the- the- the computer hardware to be on a Zoom call. Not all of us even have um uh uh cell phone reception to even have uh uh an internet connection.
Rev. Kernell: We have relatives in ministries uh all over the country. Sometimes, they have to drive about a hour to get uh a good connection to even make a call. So these are the kind of challenges that we are facing. So we are just trying to say though, take it seriously. Take the numbers that we see seriously. You know, we are trying to provide for our community the- the quality information such as our Imam- our Imam was sharing about, you know, trusting the vaccine, trusting, you know, the recommendations from the CDC, things of that nature and saying this is something that is gonna be okay. And the message that parallels with that message about science is also a message of faith that things will not always be this way.
Rev. Kernell: This will not last forever and even reminding our communities in Native American uh churches and uh uh faith community, spirituality groups, whatever it may be, that even the way that we are living in more of a- I am not gonna say isolated but in smaller communities, is how indigenous peoples have overcome so many obstacles over the centuries. That it is okay to stay amongst your family. It is okay to, you know, to be there for your children day in and day out and even ask myself. I have young people in the other room that I have to go with their elementary lessons here in just a little bit for school. It is okay to do that. And in fact, that is a gift that is being given to us that sometimes even someone like myself has overseen because I was jumping on an airplane, going across the country, going to another meeting doing this. It is okay to do that.
Rev. Kernell: And so, that is what we are hoping is that we can be reminded of all of those things, of using our language with our children using uh you know, this way of- of living and existing with our- our families and strengthening us and that this moment in time will not be forever, that there will be a day when we can see each other again. There will be a day when we can embrace again and that is not gonna be um you know, too far in the future that uh that there will be that time when we can break bread together once again as we have in the past. And so, those are kind of the messages that we are trying to share and bring home to our communities.
Chris: Rev. Kernell, thank you very much. Let us turn now to Pastor Jim Denison. He is the Pastor at Harbor Chapel uh Possum Kingdom Lake and the President of Denison Forum in Dallas, Texas. Pastor.
Pastor Denison: Uh thank you, Chris. Such a privilege to be in this conversation with these leaders from across these traditions demonstrating the hu- the unity of our humanity and uh our need for hope and for faith together. I serve a global online community as well as a local community and my message has been in many ways similar to that of Pastor Davis who spoke of God using disaster for development. I have been encouraging us to look for ways that God redeems what he allows. I am convinced that we serve a redeeming God. He is holy. He is all loving. He is all powerful. He is sovereign. I am convinced, therefore, that his character requires him to redeem for greater good all that he allows or causes. I am not suggesting we understand that redemption this side effect. We look through a glass darkly, but one day face-to-face. I do not understand the internet. I do not understand airplanes. I do not have to understand to believe that and to look for ways that God is redeeming even this horrific crisis.
Pastor Denison: So how could he be doing that? In our tradition, we obviously focus on Jesus as our Good Shepherd as he spoke of himself, and I have been thinking of Jesus in the context of the twenty-third Psalm and the Shepherd that we find there and the three ways that Jesus shepherds us. First, he goes before us. The Psalm speaks of God leading us in paths of righteousness for his namesake. Then he goes beside us. The psalm speaks of God being with us as we walk through the valley of the shadow of death. We will fear no evil for you are with us. The psalm speaks of God going behind us. Goodness and mercy shall follow us all the days of our lives. So we have been focusing on ways that Jesus is redeeming this pandemic by going before us and beside us and behind us. He is going before us. He is leading us. He is leading people to himself. Uh he is using the horrific mortality of these days to show people their need for faith, their need for hope, their need for something beyond themselves. I know of a church in California that had eight thousand in their online services before the pandemic, one point two million online for Easter Sunday.
Pastor Denison: Read the other day of the leader of the Evangelical Alliance in the UK who says that, typically, about five percent of the British people are in church before the pandemic, twenty percent had been in online services, God redeeming us, leading us to himself. He is redeeming this by being beside us and calling us to be his representatives and the Christian tradition to be the body of Christ, to be his hands and feet. As other faith leaders have said, this has been an opportunity, a- a horrific opportunity, to walk with hurting people to demonstrate God's grace and ours is compassion and hours, to reach out to people and to show them God's compassion for them. As Pastor Platero talked about, to say that none of us are forgotten, that God knows us in all of our languages and knows us and all of our needed. We can be the presence of God in places of hurt. And then last, to trust him with our own hurt, with our own pain, to know that he is going behind us, that when we do not see him, he sees us. When it is hard to trust him and understand him, he still understands us.
Pastor Denison: One of my favorite movie scenes is from that place in The Count of Monte Cristo where the prisoner says to the priest, "I do not believe in God." and the priest says, " That is okay. He still believes in you." And so, it is this invitation to trust God, to go before us and lead us, to go beside us and redeem our pain and even go behind us and surround us with his grace. That has been the message, the encouragement uh looking for all the ways that God redeems what he allows. And then last, to claim the promise at the end of that famous song. We will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. That is God's invitation. That is God's promise. And that is the promise that we are claiming in these really tough days. So it is a real privilege to share that and uh share this time in this conversation with the rest of you.
Chris: Thank you, Pastor Denison. Let us uh move to Pastor uh Ramos, although I think-
Pastor Ramos: I am here. Thank you so much for this opportunity...
Chris: Okay.
Pastor Ramos: ...uh to be part of this group. I am a Pastor of Baliuag[?] Church that represents around eight uh different countries uh Latin countries and one of the things that um that I tell the church uh knowing that most Latin countries will emerge um with the concept and understanding that um that superstitiously is part of the culture, that entail sometimes fear. So I tell them that- that uh we are experiencing what psychologists call the effectively heuristic. It is a concept, which says that people make decisions based out- of events that causes fear. And I am dealing with that situation trying to- to find out um how to help the church when it comes to fear. I have told the church that we should not fear the coronavirus but our Lord. And as- as COVID-19 crisis continues, there is- there is one thing that- that uh we must be very diligent about and that is depression um both in our children and in ourselves uh feeling depressed in times of- of force, in activity and in constant uncertainty is inerrable[?].
Pastor Ramos: And most of us are struggling to stay positive um so I encourage the church to continue to seek God in- in the midst of these tragedies and, in one of the questions that uh they are constantly I hear from the churches, is God punishing us? I do not know if some of my colleagues have heard that before but- but I have and- and I- and I try to tell the truth. But first of all, we must bear in mind that God continues to have control of history in nature. And I think it is good that the church is the first to recognize this, believe this, and announced it. Uh there are many biblical passage that speaks of these sovereignty of God and his intervention through- throughout the history of mankind. Um throughout history, God has always spoken to us in many ways, according to Hebrew 1:12, and the master was always centered toward the people of Israel and later to the early church.
Pastor Ramos: For example, the matches to the seven churches of Asia and the Book of Revelation is not for the world, but it is for the church. So today, I tell the promised church or our pastor[?], God is speaking to us again at this time in a- in a different, unusual way but always within the scope of his sovereignty and it is highly efficient. This process before the challenge of- of making a deep analysis of what has been done, of how we have fulfill the mission and carry out the will of God and, in that sense, we must make no less reflection. I tell you what. We must consider is the first- in first place that- that within the permissive will got allowed COVID-19. And the first thing he points out to us is how fragile we are, how weak we are as human beings, and how vulnerable we are. And the Bible say that a fool is he who trust in himself. Proverbs 28:26. Instead, he counsels us. "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and not lean to your own understandings." Proverbs 3:5. The church is not ours that told the promise. It is God. He is the Lord and head of the church and therefore continues- continues uh uh with the history and- and- and- and- and with our lives maintaining the control of everything.
Pastor Ramos: Secondly, I- I read an article by one- one of- of the evangelicals named John Piper that tells us that we- the coronavirus crisis as with all other calamities God has given the world a physical representation of the moral as- atrocity and spiritual ugliness of the world, seek that de- despise God. So I told the church to still continue to be the source of the world's calamities and uh atrocities and this shows us the consequence of sin. Uh the Apostle Paul summarized it in a massive way in Romans 5:12 where he says, "Through one man, sin enters the world and through sin enters death." This is how death happens to all humanity because all have sin.
Pastor Ramos: And finally, I told the truth that COVID-19 shows us a new revela- um revelation in the most exact sense of the term. God was surprisingly able to get our attention. The I- the geological position of each one in relation to the last things, we must recognize that we live in a time that is not necessarily apocalyptic. But yes, we are in an apocalypse revelation nec- uh necessity for the church. God began to reveal to us a perspective of the church more similar to that of his heart than to our personal or institutional appreciation. That is why, in short, as I conclude, we return to the starting point to the church, in the houses, to a more personal relationship with God, to a faith not mediated by development but by the work of the Holy Spirit. So I told The Promise Church, God is still in control in the midst of this pandemic crisis. Thank you.
Chris: Pastor Ramos, thank you very much. Uh let us move to Father uh Dominguez. He is the Program Director at the Don Bosco Center-Youth Apostles of the Catholic Diocese of Arlington in Arlington, Virginia. Father.
Fr. Dominguez: Thank you very much. I am also honored to be a part of this uh conversation and sharing. Um I am a priest as was mentioned in the Catholic church and I run a program that works with a principally at risk Hispanic young people, after-school, mostly grades five through high school. Uh however, I also serve at a number of other uh parishes, churches in the northern Virginia area. Uh basically, we- we accompany these young people as they uh make their way through this Earth towards, obviously, towards their heavenly goal. So I wanna begin with just a little passage from- from Hebrews- Hebrews 6:19. Um this hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope of sure and reliable and one which enters within the veil.
Fr. Dominguez: Um as has been said, this time of pandemic is um has turned ordinary conventions upside down and- and even young people whom I work with um are longing for that hu- human, genuine human interaction uh that- that they would get even, you know, at school, you know, God forbid that they want to go to school and their friends and other social activities. And my message to them has been one of encouragement as well as one that has sought out to uh put in play structures that have helped them to stay connected yet also to remain safe. Um I have seen good people of faith unite together uh to serve those who have been adversely impacted.
Fr. Dominguez: We had, you know, some that would start up food distribution centers, you know, just on their own. They are not part of a- a church or something that they just felt it was the right thing to do uh and they have done that and- and they are helping uh feed people, hundreds of people. Um we have also helped to set up um students' virtual learning centers where they come uh to our after-school program and we- we help them to- to learn by providing um other stuff to help them to navigate this uh thing. I mean they are- they are used to video games, but it is different when you actually have to learn something that is being taught to you. That is not always the most exciting. Um there have been great losses uh due to death as well as losses in support of loved ones uh those who are isolated because they are older.
Fr. Dominguez: They are in different places that you are not able to access. That is- that is even very traumatic. Even- even just travel has been difficult like, you know, going to see your grandparents, for example, in a different country. A lot of the restrictions have impeded this- this movement that would have been very normal and natural and supportive. But there have also been unexpected blessings uh some of these virtual platforms have allowed uh me, for example, to be able to connect more uh readily with people uh who are further away from the physical distance and- and draw them in uh to conversations, into sharing and being more part of the- their life. Um and we also uh my message also includes uh, you know, we can certainly see the hand of God uh present in the world from the success of the rapid deployment of the- the new vaccine to uh awakening of many for their need to pray, to look beyond the material goods and the routine of things in this world. Um all too often, it has- it has been very easy to say, you know, well, it is too easy- too busy to pray and, you know, to care for each other.
Fr. Dominguez: Now, they are looking with social venues shutting down and other normal things that kind of clutter our lives um people look and say wow, you know, I- I need something that is real. I need something that is true, something beyond the veneer of social media and things like that. Symbol that I like uh to- to speak, too, is- is the anchor uh the anchor as a symbol of hope. Uh when you look at that, it is a- it is a hope that is not very theoretical. It is a hope that is uh solidly grounded. Uh for example, you know, the tempest that is the world, you know, the ship being our life, you know. When you look at anchors and ships and when there is a big hurricane or something coming, the ships do not stay in the harbor.
Fr. Dominguez: It is actually a dangerous place when they head out to sea and they- they drop their anchors out there because if they are in the harbor, they can get damaged on the pier or on the shore and then different things can happen and they head out and they drop their anchor out there. And we see in the Bible uh time and time again how uh Jesus walks in the midst or is present in the midst of times of a tempests and oceans and storms and he is there calm and, you know, the disciples called him and he says, "I got this." And- and so, you know, as a Christian, I encourage them uh to- to put their faith, their hope in Jesus Christ.
Fr. Dominguez: But time and time again, you know, we- we just need to go back to that idea of connecting to him, holding onto that line that is connected to our anchor, the one that- that helps us, you know, as a- as the Bible says, you know, his strength- strength and his grace are enough for us. I have encouraged my community to- to hold on to that hope that things will move and God has a plan for each of us in these difficult moment. Uh I also believe that we must do so together. Um as a people of faith, we are called to look beyond ourselves uh and to see in our brothers and sisters that image of Christ. Um and as we- if we live and love in this way, then we make a difference and we act as a beacon of hope in this world. And so, I can close with another quote from Romans 5:13, 15:13, "May the God of hope fill you all with all joy and peace in believe him, so that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit." Thank you.
Chris: Thank you, Fr. Dominguez. Well, lastly, we will turn to Sr. Melanie Tag, who is the President of the Ashburn Virginia Stake Relief Society of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in Ashburn, Virginia. Melanie.
Melanie: Thank you, Chris. What a beautiful hour this has been. I have- I have learned from each of you. I have felt uplifted by you and through ways that I believe are only divine. I feel a love for you- people that I have never met and even more so for the wonderful people that you serve. Um our Relief Society is an organization of women whose primary aim is to ease human suffering, relief, to give relief to others. We are- we are seven plus million strong around the world and I have the humble blessing of leading about twelve hundred of those good women locally here in Northern Virginia.
Melanie: I would say that the primary message that we share is one that is not unique to the Chri- Christian tradition, but it is certainly the foundation of the cre- Christian tradition. And that is the two great commandments: the commandment to love our God with all our heart mind- mind and strength and to then in turn love our neighbor. We have- we have encouraged our members in the interest of loving their God and in their grief at not being able to meet together in sanctuaries and chapels and temples, to look to find ways to make their home whether they live their individually or with a group, a sanctuary as much as possible, a place of prayer, a place of fasting individually and collectively um and a place of learning, place of gospel learning and that we believe like all the rest of you that, when those are our devotions, God empowers us and enables us to withstand the challenges this pandemic being one great example um that- that beset us.
Melanie: A- a specific practice that our prophet encouraged us during this pandemic to practice that I found personally moving, as I know millions of others did, and that was to practice gratitude openly and on a daily basis. And it is counterintuitive and it is amazing that in our extremity, as we express gratitude openly and outwardly, we find that all things do work together for good for those that love the Lord that in fact he can sanctify our sufferings to our benefit and to the benefit of those around us. I do not speak Greek. So I am not sure that what I am about to say uh has a good foundation in the Greek but, in the New Testament where it says, to love the Lord and as the first great commandment and that the second one is likened to it.
Melanie: In my mind in English, what I hear is, the second one is just like it. The second one is the same as it. So in some way that I cannot describe but that I have experienced, when I love my neighbor, I know my Lord. They go together. They cannot be separated. We have encouraged our dear members to love their neighbor by wearing a mask, by getting vaccinated by socially distancing in practical secular ways. But we have more extremely encouraged them to seek ways to- to directly ease human suffering, small and large.
Melanie: As a church, we have sent humanitarian aid around the world um but I am more moved by smaller and simpler acts of kindness. Um Rabbi Jacobs' reference to the fact that sometimes we are the givers of aid and sometimes where the receivers of aid is not lost on me. The beautiful Christian New Testament parable of the- of the Good Samaritan teaches us that sometimes in our lives, we identify with the man taken of thieves in the ditch and sometimes, we identify with the Samaritan who pours in the oil. The- to me, the beautiful Nexus Point that we offer to our members between loving God and loving our neighbor is to encourage them to go to their God and ask him, who can I help? Which neighbor can I run to and how can I help them?
Melanie: This sometimes is institutionally huge and we affiliate ourselves with big, strong, good projects and it sometimes is um miniscule, if that is all we have to offer. Neither is lost and each is powerful and eternally significant. Um I- I uh I am not thankful for a pandemic, but I am thankful to a God that has sanctified a pandemic to the good of those that love him and seek in that love, to love every neighbor within their circle in ways large and small. Thanks again for a great hour, and I offer that message to you in Christ and in love. Thanks, Chris.
Chris: Thank you, Melanie Tag. We had been listening to a panel of ten American religious leaders share what they have told their own congregations and believers about faith in the pandemic with a broader national audience. This is just a snapshot of what American religious leaders have always done to help a country in crisis. Listeners, please join us in building the National Museum of American Religion in the nation's capital to open in 2026 on the two hundred and fortieth anniversary of Thomas Jefferson's immortal words, "Almighty God hath created the mind free." capturing this American essence of religious freedom by donating at storyofamericanreligion.org/contribute. Again, for a contribution of two hundred dollars or more, you will receive a free signed copy of the book, "When Sorrow Comes: The Power of Sermons from Pearl Harbor to Black Lives Matter" by Melissa Matthes, Professor of Government at the United States Coast Guard Academy. Her forthcoming book will remind us as we have been reminded today that in the face of national crisis, faith leaders have an incredible power to help Americans endure and even flourish and further their work of improving the imperfect yet noble American experiment in self-government. Uh to each of you faith leaders, thank you so very much for being with us today and sharing your beliefs and ideas on how your people and really the entire country can endure the pandemic that now moves into its second year. Thank you very much.
Chris: The startup National Museum of American Religion will be both the place of convening in Washington DC for discussions about current national issues where religion or the idea of religious freedom is in play, as we are doing today, and the nationally recognized center for presenting, interpreting, and educating the public about what religion has done to America and what America has done to religion including the history of the revolutionary and indispensable idea of religious freedom as a governing principle in the United States. Join us in building the National Museum of American Religion in the nation's capital to open in 2026 on the two hundred and fortieth anniversary of Thomas Jefferson's immortal words: "Almighty God hath created the mind free.", capturing the American essence of religious freedom by donating at storyofamericanreligion.org/contribute.
Chris: For a contribution of two hundred dollars or more, you will receive a free signed copy of the book, "When Sorrow Comes: The Power of Sermons from Pearl Harbor to Black Lives Matter" by Melissa Matthes, Professor of Government at the United States Coast Guard Academy. Her forthcoming book reminds us or will remind us that, in the face of national crisis, faith leaders have incredible power to help Americans endure, even flourish, and further the work of improving the imperfect yet noble American experiment in self-government.
Chris: Panelists, thank you so very much for being with us. We are going to start with Rev. Margaret Rose, who is the Ecumenical and Inter-Religious Deputy to the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church in New York City, and she is also a Priest Associate at the Church of the Heavenly Rest in New York City. Rev. Rose, thank you for being with us. Uh tell us briefly about your congregation that you serve, and then what you have been saying to your people about how to endure this pandemic crisis.
Rev. Rose: Thank you so much, and thank you to all ten of us being here because I think the kind of learning that we will have together will be something that we can offer to congregations and the faithful around the country. As Chris said, I serve at the national level as well as a Priest Associate at the Church of the Heavenly Rest in New York City. Heavenly Rest was formed just after the Civil War to give rest to returning soldiers and to a wounded country, for their families to people who were looking for a kind of reconciliation. And it has carried that emphasis throughout its life. It is a large episcopal church now on Fifth Avenue and 90th street in Manhattan, New York City. And its close neighbors are Harlem, Central Park and what is locally called the Museum Mile. Not exactly inner city, but there is a lot of traffic there.
Rev. Rose: From the beginning of the pandemic like all churches, 2020 was a moment of pivot. First and foremost, how to figure out what to do when ninety-nine percent of programming with the exception of email is in person and then how to do ninety-nine point nine percent of programming and engagement online and virtual. From the beginning of that pandemic at Heavenly Rest, the question has not been so much what we might say that will help people endure, but how we can strengthen the community around us so that together we can endure and even flourish amid the grief and loss, especially amid the knowledge of so much that is being exposed in our country where we once thought we might be immune, strengthening that community meant for us listening to science, telling the truth and acting in solidarity with those most at risk, and most of all, that commitment and effort meant staying connected to use every resource possible to do that.
Rev. Rose: Old-fashioned ones, like old lists and phone calls and phone trees as well as email and walking door-to-door, care for those who might be alone, communications via email were ra- ramped up every day offering prayers and programs and resources. And so, first of all, it was connect and engage with each other, and then, connect and engage with the neighborhood and the city. We created the fund for the not-forgotten, sharing resources with schools, assisting neighbor parishes with technology names, joining with other faith groups to work together to care for children who needed laptops, for example, or school lunches. Connect and engage with the world beyond ourselves, noting that this is not just a community pandemic but a global one and is exposing the many pandemics around the world, but mostly within our own country of healthcare disparities, racial injustice, to name just a few. As we traveled this road together as a parish, our community was and is being transformed. In those traditional ways, of course, by prayer and those ways that you might expect but also the fact that technology somehow allowed the quiet voices. Those who often said not so much in a pew, now offering webinars and forums, the stories of their lives which helped they themselves to endure and offering those possibilities to others.
Rev. Rose: What had been a rector-clergy-focused parish albeit with extraordinary late leadership is becoming one digging deep and discover how that label leadership works even more in partnership with clergy extending beyond the walls where we gather and, indeed, into the city and the country and beyond where we are located. This crisis has meant that we must look both deeply inward as well as beyond ourselves. We see that in a way as a sign of hope. The church-wide denominational level as well has met that unlikely partners have been able to gather together. In the parish, we have had connections with the synagogue that we had begun, but now are even deeper than ever. But the church-wide level virtual iftars and satyrs, for example, have helped us get to know each other.
Rev. Rose: Inter-religious engagement has made it possible even now for us to partner with one another to offer our spaces for vaccines or also for COVID tests. All of these, I think, are signs of hope and remain even and, in times that we are remaining polarized as a country, we are moving forward together. So that, if we have the courage to connect, we will create not so much a new normal but a new way of being. As Arundhati Roy said to us, "This time is a portal, a gateway between one world and the next. We can choose to walk through it, dragging the carcasses of our prejudice and hatred, our data banks and rivers and dead ideas. We can choose to walk through it, dragging our old carcasses of prejudice and hatred are dead Banks and rivers and we can walk through lightly with little luggage ready to imagine another world. And ready to fight for it." With our congregation together, we are imagining together another world with our neighbors and with those global partners that we were beginning to know in new ways. Thank you.
Chris: Thank you, Rev. Rose. Rabbi Jacobs.
Rabbi Jacobs: Thank you. It is an honor to be with all of you, my faith colleagues and those who are with us, wherever you might be. I am Rabbi Rick Jacobs. I serve as the leader of the Union for Reform Judaism, which is the largest and most diverse community of uh Jews in here in North America. We were founded in 1873 right after the Civil War, so a nice connection to Heavenly rest, and in our name is Union. And there was anything but unity at that moment in American history. So our founder, Rabbi Isaac Mayer Wise wanted to put it in our name to be an aspiration that we could in fact create more connection and more sense of common purpose. Uh we in the Jewish tradition, we look around and we see the brokenness everywhere we look and we also see the very same moment more acts of love and healing and kindness than we are trained to look at coz we tend to see the brokenness more.
Rabbi Jacobs: Our Jewish tradition teaches us that we are to do repairs of that which is broken, healers of all that ails not just ourselves but our community and our world. In the Hebrew Bible in Second Kings, there is a word for crisis. The word in Hebrew is 'mashber', but it literally means a birth stool, that little modest stool upon which for millennia babies were born. Now my wife tells me I am not allowed to comment about the pain of childbirth. I was just in the birthing room as a coach, but I can testify that the pain of childbirth throughout history has been not only overwhelming but deadly but what we know about that moment is also a moment of enormous possibility and hope. So at this very same moment that we are morning so much death and experiencing so much fear and loss, we are at the very same moment experiencing perhaps a rebirth of what it might mean to be a person of faith in this twenty-first century. And I would just state the obvious that we have so many people here in America who are not at home yet in a faith community and maybe feel even a touch alienated. So this is a moment where we have experienced people who have not had faith commitments but have longed for a anchor in this turbulent time.
Rabbi Jacobs: They have longed for a spiritual practice to ground everyday with concrete ways to not just cope but to find a way to thrive amidst it all. We know that this is a time when, frankly, some of the people who we longed to reach as religious leaders have maybe been more open than ever before. This
is a moment to extend the tent of our faith communities and maybe a moment to grow what it might mean to work together as this beautiful collection of religious leaders uh testifies to. I also wanna say that it is very possible in a moment like this just to focus in on ourselves or maybe our families or our most intimate circle of community, but I know in the Jewish tradition, we worship a God who is impatient with injustice. And so, in the midst of having to very often educate our children in the very same rooms where we are trying to earn a living, that we not pause our justice work. That is critical to what it means to be a person of faith. And given all of the uncertainty, we know that we have to actually stand up and be counted as people who can focus not just on ourselves and our needs but the needs of those around us, maybe some who we do not know.
Rabbi Jacobs: What we are certain of is that the death toll continues to grow and that it does not discriminate and yet it does. The plague of racial Injustice has been so deadly and we know that those dying of COVID-19 are disproportionately black and brown and native people. We know that essential workers on the front lines of the pandemic are often without adequate access to healthcare. No, we know this is a moment of racial Justice uh and a call to conscience. We know that our faith uh has to say something about the critical issues facing our world and, if our faith, our collective faiths do not have something to say about the the killing of all Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, then frankly, I would have to say that our faith does not have anything to say, and I know our faith has so much to say.
Rabbi Jacobs: We also know in this moment where our neighbor could be the one in need or the one to help us that diversity is divine. It is not a problem. It is a gift that God has created all of us in God's image without distinction, without exception. There is a beautiful passage in the Book of Zechariah, the prophet, that to me has three words that I would build not just a homily but a daily and weekly and monthly practice for our community. It says, "Love, truth and peace." Uh you could leave out one of those words and a lot of us maybe spend our time loving truth, which means that we could sometimes overwhelm those around us with the clarity and the certainty. Some people only wanna love peace. They just want everybody to feel good but do not wanna stand for something, do not wanna be accountable for the truth of what we do. But Zechariah says, "Love them both." Bring them together and that is the work. I know of being a faith community.
Rabbi Jacobs: There is a psychologist, Richard Tedeschi, who has a theory called Posttraumatic Growth. We know about posttraumatic stress. We are all experiencing it and our communities are experiencing it. Posttraumatic growth means that in traumatic experiences, like a global pandemic like a moment of racial injustice. We actually can have moments that our growth is is catalyzed and we are able to explore new ways of thinking, new ways of being. So I think this is a moment to reimagine what it means to be a faith community. What does it mean to know the borders of our faith and our community or not the walls of our sanctuaries, but the breadth of the earth that God calls us into leadership. We are- we are called to be not caretakers of institutions, but people who live our faith in caring lovingly for those around us, loving not just the ones who are like us but the once who are not like us at all. That that is part of what it means and so I would conclude with the Judaic notion that our world is um always in need of repair and what we do in our daily prayer and our faith, in our reflection, in our study, in our works of kindness to those around us, in our acts of social justice, we become partners with the Holy One to repair the world and to create a world from end to end that is filled with wholeness, compassion, joy, justice and peace. Thank you.
Chris: Thank you, Rabbi Jacobs. Pastor Davis.
Pastor Davis: Awesome, so glad to be here. So, my name is Pastor Demetrius Davis. I am Lead Pastor of CityPoint Community Church in Chicago's South Loop neighborhood. Uh I am a Christian pastor. Our congregation is uh mostly made up of uh black millennial professionals uh from uh around the country and uh the pandemic has evolved us into what we are calling a digital-first church. So rather than uh whe- rather than see it as problematic, the challenges that we are facing, we have decided to double down and lean into the the opportunity that being digital has has offered to us. Um theologically, we tend to lean toward a social gospel and, that is, this belief within Christianity that um one must examine what one has to do as a result of one's faith. How do- how does one impact uh the way one's neighbor lives? How does one impact the children in one's community um the schooling opportunities, the equality opportunities that are available to everybody as a result of our beliefs. Uh and so- um and so, that is a bit about my tradition.
Pastor Davis: One of the things that I have encouraged our congregation in- from the start of the pandemic, um there is uh uh an Old Testament scripture from my tradition that comes from Jeremiah twenty-nine where the people are effectively facing uh facing exile and their prophets that are telling people, the people that this will be over shortly. Everything will be back to normal. But then they receive this prophetic word that, in actuality, you are gonna be in this for a while, but the way that you should deal with it should not be to deal with it in despair. But that you should um you should effectively deal with it understanding that um that God still has a plan for your life. And so, that is a lot of what I have been encouraging our congregation around is that, although we are uncertain about how all this turns out, that based on our faith, we do believe that God is certain uh about the future and he is certain that there will be a future. Um and so- and so, I have talked to them about I- I would say just several points when I think about how I frame these things for them.
Pastor Davis: One is for them to consider that, according to our belief, that God was using disaster for development and we have absolutely been uh seeing this in some ways that we have been I I think given an opportunity to reimagine the world that we have created the society that we created. I think that the pandemic gave us all the chance to be forced to slow down and to settle down into to rethink how we are relating to one another uh and rethink what our priorities were as as a nation uh and as a world. Um also caused us to take a- have to take a step back and consider that, as Dr. King said, "What affects- affects any of us directly, affects all of us indirectly." And so, we recognize that the world is a neighborhood and an outbreak in one part of the world can impact us in a different part of the world.
Pastor Davis: And so, the idea of isolationism, the idea of- of only thinking about what is good for us as a society uh is not good enough. And so, I have been pressing uh pressing that up on our congregation uh to begin to just reimagine this world that we have created and ask ourselves the question, is the will of the Lord being done on Earth as it is in heaven? And if not, what is the role that we need to play in shaping that um as uh people of faith who get a chance and get the privilege to participate in a democracy? What is the society that we are creating and is it really being informed by our beliefs? Is it coming out in our vote? Is it coming out in our political participation? Is it coming out in in the policies that we support uh or are the policies that we support um running counter to our faith? And so, I have been pushing them in- in those ways.
Pastor Davis: One of the second points that I have made to them was to consider that God um may have been, as we thought about that that story in Jeremiah- look, I may have been effectively inviting them to settle into their circumstances um and for us, similarly, while we have wanted the pandemic to be over quickly, we do recognize that it is not as quickly, it is has not ended quickly and there is a settling into a new normal and deciding that we are going to live in the midst of this rather um than rather than just pack up and sit on the sidelines until things are over but that we must continue with life that we must uh continue to, you know, we have had congregants who have been engaged and they have, you know, realized that they could not have their dream wedding, but that life goes on. And so, they have had their private ceremonies with three people, but that I have been just pressing up on them to continue to live uh in the midst of this.
Pastor Davis: Uh and then, finally, that delay is not denial that, although the situation has extended a long time and- and it seems like we have been God-forsaken or God-abandoned um to really realize that, just because we are experiencing delay, does not mean that God has forgotten about us uh in the midst of this. And so, I- I have used this illustration with them and I will- I will close my time uh by sharing it with you. Um the movie, "Back to the Future" uh predicted things and- and in some ways, it predicted some things that- that actually ended up- ended up happening, you know, some years later. But what is really interesting about that movie is that, in "Back to the Future" uh specifically "Back to the Future II", they are- Marty and Doc Brown are effectively like going uh going back into the past. Um um they are going back into the past with this understanding of the future and they are manipulating in some ways the past based on how they want the future to play out.
Pastor Davis: I talked to them about how that there are similarities with how we believe that God operates that, while we are in this present moment struggling with the pandemic, that in actuality, he has 2025 in mine. He has plans for 2030 and understands what life looks like there. And so, while we may feel hopeless at times based on our current and present experiences, realize that we do believe that we have a God that knows the future, has a plan for the future um and that um that we can be hopeful in that. So, thank you.
Chris: Thank you, Pastor Davis, very much. Imam Magid.
Imam Magid: Uh thanks so much for inviting me to be among this great leaders um religious leaders. Um I want to share with you that [throat clearing] my own transformation uh during this pandemic. I- I think I have become more- more mindful of the responsibility is given to religious leaders. I have been always mindful of it but become more mindful of the- how much uh do you know we are responsible of the well-being of people. Decided to close even the mosque for months and tell people that we will not be able to have congregation prayer because of the pandemic. That was very heavy decision but meant to save people life. The responsibility of telling people the right information about vaccine and not have them to listen to fiction and WhatsApp group information because have them to resist the vaccine can lead to many people losing their life.
Imam Magid: The responsibility is to serve people at the time where you cannot see your loved one because of COVID-19 and then you come as a religious leader to try to negotiate with hospitals uh you know, nursing home, how can they see or how they can connect with their loved one through internet, phone, other other means? Also responsibility of continue to teach the shared wisdoms of the scripture while people staying at home, learning how to use Zoom, learning how to use Virtual Space. It is not easy. And but also to counsel people, the criers people who were grieving the loved one by seeing them only in your computer where you cannot give them- able to give them a hug. This was not easy.
Imam Magid: Was not easy for us to make sure that we deliver food to those who are in need, those who lost their jobs and to knock on their doors, especially people have been uh impacted by COVID-19, and to bring the food to the- to their- to their door, volunteers from our community worried about their health, worried about their safety, but all of us who thought that it is very important for us to deliver those food and the need for those who are in need. Also, I came to know that uh you know, my colleague, the pastor, the rabbis, they are my safety social [laughter] support. I have been calling rabbis and pastor, you know, all the time. How are you doing? How are your community doing? And sometime, I text a rabbi and he said to me, "Your text brought tears to my eyes because I just came from the cemetery. We buried another loved one from our community of COVID-19."
Imam Magid: And they do the same thing for me. That is how we create a support system in this beautiful country of ours. The other things I want to say that, also it has been challenging to realize that how much we have neglected the people in need in our communities. This pandemic have expose us, expose the whole nation of this how many people have been ignored and that is why we need to have a vaccine against the- the- the- the COVID-19 but vaccine also against racism, discriminations, and we need to bring- heal the nation and that my hope, my prayer in this moment, in the history of our beloved country that we come together and says no more. For those who have been neglected, those who have been overlooked and we we want to call it together because the pandemic have showed us no one is immune and we, as a community, by providing vaccine in our community clinic, by providing Social Service for those who are in need, we create a healthy, compassionate, caring community.
Chris: Thank you, Imam Magid. Pastor Platero.
Pastor Platero: Thank you, everyone. And uh it is customary in our uh Navajo um way to introduce ourselves in our native language. So [foreign language]. So I have any relatives out there that are watching, hello. Yá'át'ééh! Um I wanna begin by saying that nobody warned us. Nobody said that the Navajo Nation would be hit um and one of the hardest um would be one of the hardest hit areas in America. Nobody warned us that we would lose people at a disproportionate rate um or above any other people group um in- in- in our nation. Nobody said that we would lose a- a good majority of our senior pastors and lead pastors all across the Navajo Nation. Nobody told us that we would have to uh shelter in place uh for days on end and uh almost uh get to a point where we were rationing our food. Nobody told us that um we would be losing um great elders, great leaders, great thinkers of our people group. Uh nobody warned us.
Pastor Platero: And when we were hit with the virus uh and when it hit- hit us, it hit us hard. Not only did we um begin to rethink who we were as a um as a people, we began to think about what our next steps were and what we were gonna do to uh mitigate the- the spread of the- the pandemic on our Navajo Nation. Imagine if you would living in a- in conditions akin to a third world country and uh knowing your neighbors um are miles and miles away, and then imagine uh having to check on those neighbors and finding them uh deceased in their households. These are some of the stories that we um had to deal with- with the uh uh pandemic here on Navajo. And as we began to see the uh tragedies unfold, we began to- we began to lose hope.
Pastor Platero: We began to be reminded that uh sometimes uh Navajo people and First Nations people, the host people of the land uh of America, are sometimes the forgotten people or sometimes people that are pushed aside and maybe not have thought of in- in- in- in- in the way that we would like to be. And then imagine if you would people turning their attention to us on national news and inviting us into panels like this and saying, "We want you to be a part of the discussion because you are not forgotten because we see and we understand you." Imagine people saying, "Thank you for being the host people of the land and for uh inviting us into the conversation." Uh as we begin to think about these things and- and see these things unfold all across Navajo, we began to get a sense of hope and a sense of longing for times that we are- we are better than uh what we were seeing in front of us.
Pastor Platero: One of the big things that I have encouraged my- my people to do my uh uh congregation is not as um diverse as some of yours. Uh my congregation is not that uh uh as big as- as some of you but um you know, my sphere of influence uh revolves around those that are young um and I struggled a lot with what to say to them. I struggled a lot with what uh to inspire with them than having seen all of the travesty around Navajo, but then having to be the one to inspire hope. And the one thing that came to mind was a verse from First Peter uh which reads [throat clearing] uh in uh First Peter 4:10, "As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God." Uh each one of us have had uh a tremendous amount of um uh ways that we have responded the pandemic and we have seen so many uh Navajo people step up uh and we were- for so many days- for so many years. we have been uh seen as a mission field and now we are being seen as a mission force.
Pastor Platero: And that was my encouragement to young people uh to people all across our land that um as hard as we have been hit, we have an obligation as the host people of the land uh to go out, to begin to uh help one another regardless of um faith, regardless of uh uh orientation. Uh one way or the other, we are called to help people, to serve people. Our faith demands that we made the physical needs and the spiritual needs of people. And so, uh it has been a tremendous- the- the one thing I can say to uh all of us here and those listening is that the Navajo Nation uh those First Nation uh people of the land that uh we are mobilizing, that we are caring for you, that we hold you in our prayers, that we uh we see you as- as you have seen us.
Pastor Platero: And as you have sent aid, we are sending aid, and what a tremendous hope to give to people that we can change the- the direction. We can turn the head of our nation if we come together, if we mobilize, if we begin to uh take up the great responsibility that we have been given. And uh I- I- I wanna say to you all on- on this panel how honored I am to be uh among you. I wanted them to have a voice in this because you are saying, by virtue of listening to me and by virtue of having this conversation that our- my people, the Navajo people, are not forgotten um and that you are inviting us into the conversation. I wanna thank you for that from the bottom of my heart. I want to say in our native language [foreign language] with great gratitude. I give this report to you. So thank you all and uh God bless you.
Chris: Thank you, Pastor Platero. And I failed to introduce our panelists. I am gonna take a minute and uh tell you who has spoken to us. That was Pastor Platero. He is the Chaplain at Broken Arrow Bible Ranch on the Navajo Nation. Before him was Imam Magid. He is the Executive Religious Director at the All Dulles Area Muslim Society or ADAMS Center in Sterling, Virginia. Before Imam Magid was Pastor Demetrius Davis, Lead Pastor at CityPoint Community Church in Chicago. And then, before that was Rabbi Jacobs, Reform Rabbi and the President of the Union for Reform Judaism. And before that was Rev. Rose and I believe I did introduce her. So we will go now to Rev. Chebon Kernell. He is Muscogee Ceremonial Leader and Executive Director of the Native American Comprehensive Plan of the United Methodist Church, and he is in Oklahoma City. Rev. Kernell.
Rev. Kernell: Thank you, Chris. Um as my relative uh Pastor Platero was saying, it is customary to do our- our introductions in our language so that all of our ancestors and those who may be watching will know who we represent and who we speak of. [foreign language] So I just shared with you a little bit of my responsibilities uh to my community of Muscogee people and Seminole people of Oklahoma, and also just letting you know who my clan relatives are uh in that little uh few lines that I shared with you. Um it is my pleasure. Once again, as everyone has said to- to be here with each of you relatives talking about the impact of this pandemic on our respective communities and I am uh particularly touched by our [?] relatives and our Navajo people in what they have gone through and I am thankful for the- the presence of Pastor Platero and others that have labored through what um much of the world is just now beginning to understand what we go through as Native American people day-to-day because, unfortunately, this is not the only trauma that we face day in and day out.
Rev. Kernell: And really, when we think about what have we been sharing in terms of our message to our people, um you know, as a community for- for myself and- and my role having served or- over the past twenty years and two capacities as uh a pastor of a church, but right now in more of an administrative role where I am responsible for training all of our communities within the United Methodist Church with that impact Native American and indigenous peoples um you know, it is very- we have to be very honest in what we try to say because before we can get into anything prescriptive of what we can be in ministry and in life, we have to be descriptive. We have to describe actually the trauma that we are going through day in and day out and that is really what we are facing today. When we think about- we are just now getting the statistics on how this pandemic is hitting people of color throughout the United States and it is heartbreaking.
Rev. Kernell: I think even one of our institute has just uh yesterday put out uh a statistic of how that thirty-five percent of COVID-related deaths are from young people, Native Americans under the age of sixty, which is quite opposite of what you see going on across the country, you know, we already know, you know, the six times, the seven times higher rates of infections in Native American communities and the reality is, much of our people uh much of the world I should say, had- does not quite realize what that means for communities that represent one percent of the population were making up an enormous percent of the people that are actually getting sick from the virus. And even as I have been on call after call, conference after conference, I have actually implored of people to realize that I am not so sure what our community will look like when we are past this, that we have to at least acknowledge at some level the trauma that we are going through.
Rev. Kernell: Even just uh a couple of weeks ago. I was called to do and I know this is how pastors and clergy all over uh the Native American communities are- are- are what they are going through. I was called to do four funerals in the amount of eight days and three of those, of course, were COVID-related. One was one of just our elders had passed away, but we are still called into situations where we might find ourselves um I am- I am not gonna say put in harm's way, but uh where we might be exposed to this virus. And for our world, you know, one of the things that it is very difficult for us to understand a cosmology that is different than looking at the intimate communication between human-to-human and human-to-creation is that our churches, our communities were kind of hybrid in our understanding of the world and our faith is that, number one, we do have for those that are finding a spiritual home and Christianity, they do have tenants and Christianity are very much the same as what we have heard on our call.
Rev. Kernell: But we also possess spiritualities that um you know, we have been performing and engaging in understandings of the world that have been in place for uh thousands of years and it is those things that are still tugging at as for when- when we look at a Zoom call or a meeting such as this, it seems somewhat artificial. So we tend to want to be in each other's presence, to be in each other's uh you know, to see each other, to talk to each other. And that is one of the things that we have continued to do, you know, throughout the country and, unfortunately, it has had a- an enormous impact on our um on our health and well-being as Pastor Platero had said, many of our ministers have have passed on and even in our- many of our communities here in Oklahoma um it has been the- the- the same thing.
Rev. Kernell: So we have been trying to- the message that we have been trying to share is that, because we might uh we are gonna believe in science and what is being said um from- from uh reputable sources, it does not take away from our faith to not go and meet in person in church settings. It is not gonna take away from our faith. And this has been a work in progress. It has been, you know, a little bit of- of a teaching that we have had to engage in to say it is gonna be okay if, you know, if we do not have uh a Sunday morning service that might expose us to the virus unnecessarily. Um but I must say, there is challenges, you know. Not all of us have the- the- the computer hardware to be on a Zoom call. Not all of us even have um uh uh cell phone reception to even have uh uh an internet connection.
Rev. Kernell: We have relatives in ministries uh all over the country. Sometimes, they have to drive about a hour to get uh a good connection to even make a call. So these are the kind of challenges that we are facing. So we are just trying to say though, take it seriously. Take the numbers that we see seriously. You know, we are trying to provide for our community the- the quality information such as our Imam- our Imam was sharing about, you know, trusting the vaccine, trusting, you know, the recommendations from the CDC, things of that nature and saying this is something that is gonna be okay. And the message that parallels with that message about science is also a message of faith that things will not always be this way.
Rev. Kernell: This will not last forever and even reminding our communities in Native American uh churches and uh uh faith community, spirituality groups, whatever it may be, that even the way that we are living in more of a- I am not gonna say isolated but in smaller communities, is how indigenous peoples have overcome so many obstacles over the centuries. That it is okay to stay amongst your family. It is okay to, you know, to be there for your children day in and day out and even ask myself. I have young people in the other room that I have to go with their elementary lessons here in just a little bit for school. It is okay to do that. And in fact, that is a gift that is being given to us that sometimes even someone like myself has overseen because I was jumping on an airplane, going across the country, going to another meeting doing this. It is okay to do that.
Rev. Kernell: And so, that is what we are hoping is that we can be reminded of all of those things, of using our language with our children using uh you know, this way of- of living and existing with our- our families and strengthening us and that this moment in time will not be forever, that there will be a day when we can see each other again. There will be a day when we can embrace again and that is not gonna be um you know, too far in the future that uh that there will be that time when we can break bread together once again as we have in the past. And so, those are kind of the messages that we are trying to share and bring home to our communities.
Chris: Rev. Kernell, thank you very much. Let us turn now to Pastor Jim Denison. He is the Pastor at Harbor Chapel uh Possum Kingdom Lake and the President of Denison Forum in Dallas, Texas. Pastor.
Pastor Denison: Uh thank you, Chris. Such a privilege to be in this conversation with these leaders from across these traditions demonstrating the hu- the unity of our humanity and uh our need for hope and for faith together. I serve a global online community as well as a local community and my message has been in many ways similar to that of Pastor Davis who spoke of God using disaster for development. I have been encouraging us to look for ways that God redeems what he allows. I am convinced that we serve a redeeming God. He is holy. He is all loving. He is all powerful. He is sovereign. I am convinced, therefore, that his character requires him to redeem for greater good all that he allows or causes. I am not suggesting we understand that redemption this side effect. We look through a glass darkly, but one day face-to-face. I do not understand the internet. I do not understand airplanes. I do not have to understand to believe that and to look for ways that God is redeeming even this horrific crisis.
Pastor Denison: So how could he be doing that? In our tradition, we obviously focus on Jesus as our Good Shepherd as he spoke of himself, and I have been thinking of Jesus in the context of the twenty-third Psalm and the Shepherd that we find there and the three ways that Jesus shepherds us. First, he goes before us. The Psalm speaks of God leading us in paths of righteousness for his namesake. Then he goes beside us. The psalm speaks of God being with us as we walk through the valley of the shadow of death. We will fear no evil for you are with us. The psalm speaks of God going behind us. Goodness and mercy shall follow us all the days of our lives. So we have been focusing on ways that Jesus is redeeming this pandemic by going before us and beside us and behind us. He is going before us. He is leading us. He is leading people to himself. Uh he is using the horrific mortality of these days to show people their need for faith, their need for hope, their need for something beyond themselves. I know of a church in California that had eight thousand in their online services before the pandemic, one point two million online for Easter Sunday.
Pastor Denison: Read the other day of the leader of the Evangelical Alliance in the UK who says that, typically, about five percent of the British people are in church before the pandemic, twenty percent had been in online services, God redeeming us, leading us to himself. He is redeeming this by being beside us and calling us to be his representatives and the Christian tradition to be the body of Christ, to be his hands and feet. As other faith leaders have said, this has been an opportunity, a- a horrific opportunity, to walk with hurting people to demonstrate God's grace and ours is compassion and hours, to reach out to people and to show them God's compassion for them. As Pastor Platero talked about, to say that none of us are forgotten, that God knows us in all of our languages and knows us and all of our needed. We can be the presence of God in places of hurt. And then last, to trust him with our own hurt, with our own pain, to know that he is going behind us, that when we do not see him, he sees us. When it is hard to trust him and understand him, he still understands us.
Pastor Denison: One of my favorite movie scenes is from that place in The Count of Monte Cristo where the prisoner says to the priest, "I do not believe in God." and the priest says, " That is okay. He still believes in you." And so, it is this invitation to trust God, to go before us and lead us, to go beside us and redeem our pain and even go behind us and surround us with his grace. That has been the message, the encouragement uh looking for all the ways that God redeems what he allows. And then last, to claim the promise at the end of that famous song. We will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. That is God's invitation. That is God's promise. And that is the promise that we are claiming in these really tough days. So it is a real privilege to share that and uh share this time in this conversation with the rest of you.
Chris: Thank you, Pastor Denison. Let us uh move to Pastor uh Ramos, although I think-
Pastor Ramos: I am here. Thank you so much for this opportunity...
Chris: Okay.
Pastor Ramos: ...uh to be part of this group. I am a Pastor of Baliuag[?] Church that represents around eight uh different countries uh Latin countries and one of the things that um that I tell the church uh knowing that most Latin countries will emerge um with the concept and understanding that um that superstitiously is part of the culture, that entail sometimes fear. So I tell them that- that uh we are experiencing what psychologists call the effectively heuristic. It is a concept, which says that people make decisions based out- of events that causes fear. And I am dealing with that situation trying to- to find out um how to help the church when it comes to fear. I have told the church that we should not fear the coronavirus but our Lord. And as- as COVID-19 crisis continues, there is- there is one thing that- that uh we must be very diligent about and that is depression um both in our children and in ourselves uh feeling depressed in times of- of force, in activity and in constant uncertainty is inerrable[?].
Pastor Ramos: And most of us are struggling to stay positive um so I encourage the church to continue to seek God in- in the midst of these tragedies and, in one of the questions that uh they are constantly I hear from the churches, is God punishing us? I do not know if some of my colleagues have heard that before but- but I have and- and I- and I try to tell the truth. But first of all, we must bear in mind that God continues to have control of history in nature. And I think it is good that the church is the first to recognize this, believe this, and announced it. Uh there are many biblical passage that speaks of these sovereignty of God and his intervention through- throughout the history of mankind. Um throughout history, God has always spoken to us in many ways, according to Hebrew 1:12, and the master was always centered toward the people of Israel and later to the early church.
Pastor Ramos: For example, the matches to the seven churches of Asia and the Book of Revelation is not for the world, but it is for the church. So today, I tell the promised church or our pastor[?], God is speaking to us again at this time in a- in a different, unusual way but always within the scope of his sovereignty and it is highly efficient. This process before the challenge of- of making a deep analysis of what has been done, of how we have fulfill the mission and carry out the will of God and, in that sense, we must make no less reflection. I tell you what. We must consider is the first- in first place that- that within the permissive will got allowed COVID-19. And the first thing he points out to us is how fragile we are, how weak we are as human beings, and how vulnerable we are. And the Bible say that a fool is he who trust in himself. Proverbs 28:26. Instead, he counsels us. "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and not lean to your own understandings." Proverbs 3:5. The church is not ours that told the promise. It is God. He is the Lord and head of the church and therefore continues- continues uh uh with the history and- and- and- and- and with our lives maintaining the control of everything.
Pastor Ramos: Secondly, I- I read an article by one- one of- of the evangelicals named John Piper that tells us that we- the coronavirus crisis as with all other calamities God has given the world a physical representation of the moral as- atrocity and spiritual ugliness of the world, seek that de- despise God. So I told the church to still continue to be the source of the world's calamities and uh atrocities and this shows us the consequence of sin. Uh the Apostle Paul summarized it in a massive way in Romans 5:12 where he says, "Through one man, sin enters the world and through sin enters death." This is how death happens to all humanity because all have sin.
Pastor Ramos: And finally, I told the truth that COVID-19 shows us a new revela- um revelation in the most exact sense of the term. God was surprisingly able to get our attention. The I- the geological position of each one in relation to the last things, we must recognize that we live in a time that is not necessarily apocalyptic. But yes, we are in an apocalypse revelation nec- uh necessity for the church. God began to reveal to us a perspective of the church more similar to that of his heart than to our personal or institutional appreciation. That is why, in short, as I conclude, we return to the starting point to the church, in the houses, to a more personal relationship with God, to a faith not mediated by development but by the work of the Holy Spirit. So I told The Promise Church, God is still in control in the midst of this pandemic crisis. Thank you.
Chris: Pastor Ramos, thank you very much. Uh let us move to Father uh Dominguez. He is the Program Director at the Don Bosco Center-Youth Apostles of the Catholic Diocese of Arlington in Arlington, Virginia. Father.
Fr. Dominguez: Thank you very much. I am also honored to be a part of this uh conversation and sharing. Um I am a priest as was mentioned in the Catholic church and I run a program that works with a principally at risk Hispanic young people, after-school, mostly grades five through high school. Uh however, I also serve at a number of other uh parishes, churches in the northern Virginia area. Uh basically, we- we accompany these young people as they uh make their way through this Earth towards, obviously, towards their heavenly goal. So I wanna begin with just a little passage from- from Hebrews- Hebrews 6:19. Um this hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope of sure and reliable and one which enters within the veil.
Fr. Dominguez: Um as has been said, this time of pandemic is um has turned ordinary conventions upside down and- and even young people whom I work with um are longing for that hu- human, genuine human interaction uh that- that they would get even, you know, at school, you know, God forbid that they want to go to school and their friends and other social activities. And my message to them has been one of encouragement as well as one that has sought out to uh put in play structures that have helped them to stay connected yet also to remain safe. Um I have seen good people of faith unite together uh to serve those who have been adversely impacted.
Fr. Dominguez: We had, you know, some that would start up food distribution centers, you know, just on their own. They are not part of a- a church or something that they just felt it was the right thing to do uh and they have done that and- and they are helping uh feed people, hundreds of people. Um we have also helped to set up um students' virtual learning centers where they come uh to our after-school program and we- we help them to- to learn by providing um other stuff to help them to navigate this uh thing. I mean they are- they are used to video games, but it is different when you actually have to learn something that is being taught to you. That is not always the most exciting. Um there have been great losses uh due to death as well as losses in support of loved ones uh those who are isolated because they are older.
Fr. Dominguez: They are in different places that you are not able to access. That is- that is even very traumatic. Even- even just travel has been difficult like, you know, going to see your grandparents, for example, in a different country. A lot of the restrictions have impeded this- this movement that would have been very normal and natural and supportive. But there have also been unexpected blessings uh some of these virtual platforms have allowed uh me, for example, to be able to connect more uh readily with people uh who are further away from the physical distance and- and draw them in uh to conversations, into sharing and being more part of the- their life. Um and we also uh my message also includes uh, you know, we can certainly see the hand of God uh present in the world from the success of the rapid deployment of the- the new vaccine to uh awakening of many for their need to pray, to look beyond the material goods and the routine of things in this world. Um all too often, it has- it has been very easy to say, you know, well, it is too easy- too busy to pray and, you know, to care for each other.
Fr. Dominguez: Now, they are looking with social venues shutting down and other normal things that kind of clutter our lives um people look and say wow, you know, I- I need something that is real. I need something that is true, something beyond the veneer of social media and things like that. Symbol that I like uh to- to speak, too, is- is the anchor uh the anchor as a symbol of hope. Uh when you look at that, it is a- it is a hope that is not very theoretical. It is a hope that is uh solidly grounded. Uh for example, you know, the tempest that is the world, you know, the ship being our life, you know. When you look at anchors and ships and when there is a big hurricane or something coming, the ships do not stay in the harbor.
Fr. Dominguez: It is actually a dangerous place when they head out to sea and they- they drop their anchors out there because if they are in the harbor, they can get damaged on the pier or on the shore and then different things can happen and they head out and they drop their anchor out there. And we see in the Bible uh time and time again how uh Jesus walks in the midst or is present in the midst of times of a tempests and oceans and storms and he is there calm and, you know, the disciples called him and he says, "I got this." And- and so, you know, as a Christian, I encourage them uh to- to put their faith, their hope in Jesus Christ.
Fr. Dominguez: But time and time again, you know, we- we just need to go back to that idea of connecting to him, holding onto that line that is connected to our anchor, the one that- that helps us, you know, as a- as the Bible says, you know, his strength- strength and his grace are enough for us. I have encouraged my community to- to hold on to that hope that things will move and God has a plan for each of us in these difficult moment. Uh I also believe that we must do so together. Um as a people of faith, we are called to look beyond ourselves uh and to see in our brothers and sisters that image of Christ. Um and as we- if we live and love in this way, then we make a difference and we act as a beacon of hope in this world. And so, I can close with another quote from Romans 5:13, 15:13, "May the God of hope fill you all with all joy and peace in believe him, so that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit." Thank you.
Chris: Thank you, Fr. Dominguez. Well, lastly, we will turn to Sr. Melanie Tag, who is the President of the Ashburn Virginia Stake Relief Society of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in Ashburn, Virginia. Melanie.
Melanie: Thank you, Chris. What a beautiful hour this has been. I have- I have learned from each of you. I have felt uplifted by you and through ways that I believe are only divine. I feel a love for you- people that I have never met and even more so for the wonderful people that you serve. Um our Relief Society is an organization of women whose primary aim is to ease human suffering, relief, to give relief to others. We are- we are seven plus million strong around the world and I have the humble blessing of leading about twelve hundred of those good women locally here in Northern Virginia.
Melanie: I would say that the primary message that we share is one that is not unique to the Chri- Christian tradition, but it is certainly the foundation of the cre- Christian tradition. And that is the two great commandments: the commandment to love our God with all our heart mind- mind and strength and to then in turn love our neighbor. We have- we have encouraged our members in the interest of loving their God and in their grief at not being able to meet together in sanctuaries and chapels and temples, to look to find ways to make their home whether they live their individually or with a group, a sanctuary as much as possible, a place of prayer, a place of fasting individually and collectively um and a place of learning, place of gospel learning and that we believe like all the rest of you that, when those are our devotions, God empowers us and enables us to withstand the challenges this pandemic being one great example um that- that beset us.
Melanie: A- a specific practice that our prophet encouraged us during this pandemic to practice that I found personally moving, as I know millions of others did, and that was to practice gratitude openly and on a daily basis. And it is counterintuitive and it is amazing that in our extremity, as we express gratitude openly and outwardly, we find that all things do work together for good for those that love the Lord that in fact he can sanctify our sufferings to our benefit and to the benefit of those around us. I do not speak Greek. So I am not sure that what I am about to say uh has a good foundation in the Greek but, in the New Testament where it says, to love the Lord and as the first great commandment and that the second one is likened to it.
Melanie: In my mind in English, what I hear is, the second one is just like it. The second one is the same as it. So in some way that I cannot describe but that I have experienced, when I love my neighbor, I know my Lord. They go together. They cannot be separated. We have encouraged our dear members to love their neighbor by wearing a mask, by getting vaccinated by socially distancing in practical secular ways. But we have more extremely encouraged them to seek ways to- to directly ease human suffering, small and large.
Melanie: As a church, we have sent humanitarian aid around the world um but I am more moved by smaller and simpler acts of kindness. Um Rabbi Jacobs' reference to the fact that sometimes we are the givers of aid and sometimes where the receivers of aid is not lost on me. The beautiful Christian New Testament parable of the- of the Good Samaritan teaches us that sometimes in our lives, we identify with the man taken of thieves in the ditch and sometimes, we identify with the Samaritan who pours in the oil. The- to me, the beautiful Nexus Point that we offer to our members between loving God and loving our neighbor is to encourage them to go to their God and ask him, who can I help? Which neighbor can I run to and how can I help them?
Melanie: This sometimes is institutionally huge and we affiliate ourselves with big, strong, good projects and it sometimes is um miniscule, if that is all we have to offer. Neither is lost and each is powerful and eternally significant. Um I- I uh I am not thankful for a pandemic, but I am thankful to a God that has sanctified a pandemic to the good of those that love him and seek in that love, to love every neighbor within their circle in ways large and small. Thanks again for a great hour, and I offer that message to you in Christ and in love. Thanks, Chris.
Chris: Thank you, Melanie Tag. We had been listening to a panel of ten American religious leaders share what they have told their own congregations and believers about faith in the pandemic with a broader national audience. This is just a snapshot of what American religious leaders have always done to help a country in crisis. Listeners, please join us in building the National Museum of American Religion in the nation's capital to open in 2026 on the two hundred and fortieth anniversary of Thomas Jefferson's immortal words, "Almighty God hath created the mind free." capturing this American essence of religious freedom by donating at storyofamericanreligion.org/contribute. Again, for a contribution of two hundred dollars or more, you will receive a free signed copy of the book, "When Sorrow Comes: The Power of Sermons from Pearl Harbor to Black Lives Matter" by Melissa Matthes, Professor of Government at the United States Coast Guard Academy. Her forthcoming book will remind us as we have been reminded today that in the face of national crisis, faith leaders have an incredible power to help Americans endure and even flourish and further their work of improving the imperfect yet noble American experiment in self-government. Uh to each of you faith leaders, thank you so very much for being with us today and sharing your beliefs and ideas on how your people and really the entire country can endure the pandemic that now moves into its second year. Thank you very much.